Casey Anthony Issues
68Pinpointing Cause of Death
Was It Important for the prosecution to Pinpoint How Caylee Died?
See results without votingCasey Anthony Crime Issues
Casey Anthony was acquitted of murdering her child, Caylee. The decision was contentious, and certainly many believed that the little girl was murdered by her mom. There are some issues that I would like to present, that both trouble me about the trial and trouble me about Americans in general, when it comes to true crime.
Certainly the chloroform issue troubles me. It was shown that Cindy, Casey's mother, was at work when the chloroform searches took place. Traces of chloroform were found in the trunk of Casey's car. Yet mother Cindy testified she did the searches for the term on the home computer. It doesn't add up. A close family friend surmised that the chloroform usage could have been accidental, or could have been a result of an argument with Cindy. But that does not explain the premeditated searches either.
However, the letters are clear that were released in April, 2010, Casey used chloroform to put the baby to sleep. So it could have been an accident! You have to remember that it is beyond a reasonable doubt as to the bar of proof.
This is not as easy of a case as meets the eye.
Another issue that bothers me is that the jury believed the plausibility of George Anthony, a former cop, covering up a drowning that was accidental in the pool. The theory goes George Anthony hid the body in the woods in order to protect the family from an accidental death charge of neglect. What bothers me about that issue is that George testified that he smelled the odor of death when Casey's car was retrieved. It seems inconsistent for one who would cover up a crime to then implicate his child in a more serious crime, murder. It just doesn't make sense.
However, I think the jury thought there was sexual involvement by George with Casey and could have attached that behavior, which was totally unproven, to his relationship to Caylee. If George is innocent, then a grave injustice has been done, but he is a parent. He is glad his child will not face the death penalty.
But that does not impact the concept that the chloroform could have been used as a sedative. It is not an ordinary sedative. It is not something that other parents generally use because of the danger, though they should not do sedatives for children at all. So the evidence points toward Casey in some way, but there is a lot of doubt as to what is happened to Caylee.
For those who believed that the duct tape killed Caylee, that would have been evidence enough to convict, possibly. Except that the coroner ruled that the cause of Caylees death was unknown! So it gets more complicated the more one digs into the case.
True Crime On a Much Larger Scale
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The Death Penalty Got In the Way
With no forensic evidence, the death penalty no doubt got in the way. Juror number 3 revealed that the jury was not prepared to convict when the prosecution was seeking the death penalty, without real forensic proof.
Perhaps prosecutors should be a little more careful when trying mothers of children, and just don't get greedy. America has some of the harshest sentencing laws in the world. We don't cut off hands, but we have long prison terms and lots of death penalty cases. In the future prosecutors, who are not beyond being arrogant in their behavior, should maybe eat a little humble pie.
Should Prosecutors Have Gone After the Death Penalty?
Did prosecutors make a mistake in going after the death penalty?
See results without votingTrue Crime And Nancy Grace
It is difficult to understand the role of the media in the case. The defense alluded to the circus attitude of the media, but the jury was sequestered. So it is difficult to know what they knew. Certainly Nancy Grace had already convicted Casey in the media. That is, she did not believe Casey and sought to persuade her audience of Casey's guilt.
[I personally wish Nancy's passion would turn to the really big crimes like the ponzi housing and credit crisis that ruined the lives of thousands of people, caused murders, suicides, abuse, pet abandonment, etc. She would get to the bottom of it, with my help of course.]
But while a trial is going on, in a family case, she probably should have backed off. No one will ever know the effect this media conviction had on this case. I will do a poll and maybe you can answer it.
Justice was not served, in my opinion, by this case. However, I do believe that prosecutors underestimated the difficulty of putting a young woman to death in the psyche of the jurors without at least some forensic evidence. They should have decided to not seek the death penalty.
Did People Like Nancy Grace Impact This Case?
Did media conviction affect the jurors in any way?
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Casey Anthony Acquital
Another Interesting Celebrity Murder
While Casey Anthony was no celebrity when this case started, her acquittal has given her instant celebrity status. That is one unfortunate byproduct of the mass media we have now. I will be discussing another famous murder case, in which a beautiful woman was involved. This was the tragedy of the Spider Sabich case.
But as an aside, it is important to note that these cases distract from even more important issues making the front page, like the bankers and their immoral behavior against the nation. Both men and women apply too much of their time to follow issues like Casey and other celebrity trials. It is worth the mental gymnastics to follow this case, or an OJ case, but there are more complex and hurtful crimes against the nation as a whole that we need to follow more extensively. There are ebooks on the site that expose the danger and moral corruption of our financial system. The immoral behavior of the banks and the private central banks can be understood. It is not rocket science, people!
With regard to celebrity murder, beauty may play a role in swaying a jury. In the Spider Sabich murder, a world class athlete was allegedly gunned down by his famous girlfriend, Claudine Longet. She had remarkable beauty, and was acquitted. But in this case, other factors may have impacted the course of the trial. From the Wiki article:
The Aspen police made two procedural errors that aided Longet's defense: without warrants, they took a blood sample from her and confiscated her diary. According to prosecutors, the sample showed the presence of cocaine in her blood, and her diary reportedly contradicted her claim that her relationship with Sabich had not soured. In addition, the gun was mishandled by non-weapons experts. As they were unable to cite any of the disallowed material, prosecutors did use the autopsy report to suggest that when Sabich was struck he was bent over, facing away, and at least 1.80 m (6 feet) from Longet, which would be inconsistent with the position and relative distance of someone demonstrating the operation of a firearm.
Perhaps this evidence would have convicted the French singer. But her beauty no doubt helped her.
The Beautiful Claudine Longet
- Claudine Longet Pictures - Claudine Longet Photo Gallery - 2011
06 October 2011... 23 pictures of Claudine Longet. Recent images. Hot! View the latest Claudine Longet photos. Large gallery of Claudine Longet pics. Movie posters. Stills. Magazine pics. Pictorials. Covers. Red carpet photos. Claudine Longet photo s
Casey Talks About a Squirrel Dead in the Car. But She Didn't Say Where Casey Was.
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Yeah, it is tough one for people who love children. I totally understand.
The snickering prosecutor torpedoed his own case when he laughed during the defences summation ( which I thought was excellent, covering point by point all circumstantial evidence )...Was she guilty..? Well, someone killed the little girl...you don't put duct tape on a child after they are dead...Something is seriously wrong with our current jury system and needs to be addressed immediately...
I remember watching the Spider Sabich trial...Do you remember when Claudine appeared for the juries verdict..? She was wearing a revealing tee shirt that read " No Sweat "...
Interesting commentary, voted up and useful...Larry
Thanks for commenting Maven. Yeah, Claudine was no doubt one of the most beautiful women in the world. But I think she had a dark heart.
Coming from the UK I was not aware of this case. However your point about the jury and the death penalty is reqlly quite relevant. I have been in court on a number of serious cases. The prosecution have lost them simply because the jury, seeing how heavy the punishment is, will not convict when they are not 100per cent sure.
Thanks for a distant point of view. :)
Many loudmouthed Americans are simply quite bloodthirsty. I understand the need for justice but the prosecution needs to use their brains.
I was not one of the blood thirsty ones. I never thought they were going to get Murder 1..... As much as a loathe a woman who would carry on as she did when her little girl is "missing" or recently, untimely deceased I am not convinced this was not an accident which spun out of control. I do NOT believe the pool theory at all, I think this was ALL Casey. That being said, Casey more than deserved manslaughter, negligent homicide or at the very least aggravated child abuse. The jury was out of their minds letting her off completely. They could of went with a lesser conviction. The judge was clear about that in his instructions. They were wrong, wrong, wrong and I don't know how they sleep at night having let a child murderer walk in a week. Great article by Marcia Clarke: http://www.businessinsider.com/brainwashed-marcia-
Hi Cheryl, I read the article by Marsha Clark. I was not impressed. If the coroner cannot place the cause of death, it becomes difficult to prosecute the case. If no one knows how Caylee died, then this presents major problems. I am sure that is what the jury focused on.
Having said that, since she did not report Caylee missing, I think it is reasonable to assume that Caylee was guilty of child neglect at the very least. But of course, that charge was not a choice.
Marsha Clark looks great. But she is not the sharpest prosecutor in the shed.
Very interesting points. I don't believe her youth or beauty played a role in getting her acquitted. Two reasons, first is that the jury consisted mostly of women, who may have judged her harsher, especially if they were mothers. Secondly, it's a case about the a mother committing the murder of her child which is one of the most heinous acts thinkable-hence the outrage surrounding the case. I also feel that unfortunately the defense always has an advantage because burden of proof is on the prosecution. It should be the other way around. There's no doubt in my mind she would have been found guilty if it were. I also don't believe for a second George Anthony ever touched Casey inappropriately. It was a stupid move to blame her father. She's going to need her family more than ever once she's released. It will be intersting to see what happens once she is released. I'll be surprised if she survives a week on the outside. Again, great hub and very thought provoking. Voted up.
Hi Amy. No, it can't be the other way around. Many innocent people would be convicted. Here is the main reason that I think she was acquitted. The coroner could not determine the cause of death. Since the cause of death could not be determined, it made no sense for the coroner to say it was a murder. There is no way the coroner could know that. And the jury just felt that the prosecution did not prove murder. It could have been an accident that was covered up. I don't think that is the most likely result, but it could have been.
Brillianly writen and I think you have a lot of good points there. There seemed to be a mess-up and it helped her to get free. There is no doubt that beauty does help.
Thanks Hello. The main thing is that the coroner made the strange claim that they could not pinpoint the cause of death but that it was a murder. That seems like a finding that has no value.
Go to youtube look for strange breakfast with caylee at 33 seconds you can hear ' I kill" by the person making the video It sounds like Casey's voice to me and Caylee was trying to say it is why Casey repeated it. Why would she do this? Probably due to Casey yelling it to her for so long and Casey was testing her to see if she would repeat it to George and CIndy. She was getting old enough to tell on Casey!
I don't see that on youtube. I tried to find it. Don't get me wrong, it is a horrific crime. The question remains, how did she die? If you have a link to the tape I would be glad to look at it.
ill send it to you hang on
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=807kMNkVl0k
fast forward to 32 seconds it she says " I KILL" at 33 seconds you can tell little Caylee is trying to say it as soon as the tape starts. I think Casey was testing her to see if Caylee would repeat what Casey was probably yelling at Caylee all along. Caylee was getting old enough to talk and tattle on Casey. Think about that Casey was lying about her whereabouts from the get go so only natural that Casey would be introuble as Caylee grew and could spoil her fun.
Do you know about the fight over the 354$ for the cell phone Casey stole this money from her maternal grandmother and the last day Caylee was alive, a video was made by Cindy at the nursing home the one seen on TV of Caylee reading and singing and granny told Cindy about yet another theft by Casey. It was this last day that Cindy came home and got Casey by the throat and then called her mom and said Casey will never steal from you again. After that fight the night of June 15th 2008 no one ever saw Caylee alive again!
Very troubling details, Charlee. You think it was family or Cssey?
family or casey what? Casey was the only one who had Caylee Casey was the one that benefitted from killing Caylee. Casey was getting tired of taking care of her and when her new boyfriend Tony told her he didnt want any kids or if he did he wanted a boy that sealed Caylee's fate. Susan Smith redux
So you answered my question. The problem with this case remains, how did Caylee die? If the coroner cannot figure that out there is something missing in the case.
Also I thought you said that Cindy initiated violence against Casey. That is why I asked the question. Was anyone else involved in the murder?
manner of death and cause of death are 2 different things and as long as manner of death equals murder then cause of death does not matter in order to find a person guilty of the charge. this is where the 12 Pinellas Pinheads messed up. Whether Casey suffocated her, chloroformed her, drown her, starved her does not negate a charge of murder. the point is SHE KILLED HER period. The jury thought they had to know exactly how Caylee died and nothing could be father from the truth and those morons did not think to ask that question before or during their 5 minutes of deliberations. They just wanted to go home. Big problem for sequestered jurys
I don't buy that Charlee. If you cannot determine how someone died, then how do you know if it was murder? Babies suffocate in their cribs all the time. Accidents happened. Chloroform is used by some to sedate. Is that what happened? Like I said, Charlee, the state made the mistake of going for muder 1. They may have convicted on a lesser charge.
Look, the justice system is very imperfect. We know innocent people get convicted all the time. When you are in that jury room many are mindful of that, and the defendent in this case looked like a sympathetic figure whether she was or not.
Maybe she committed murder 2, even. But murder 1 has to do with premeditation and planning. It was boneheaded to only file that one charge.
I will paraphrase Dr G. No child should be found in a swamp with duct on her face NO CHILD. this was a homicide. If you look back 3 or 4 monts before the crime and see that Casey got a new beau, her and Cindy were at war over care of Calyee and Casey's partying, George had caught her lying about working at Sports Authority. The youtube video where Casey realizes Caylee can repeat things Casey says. Did you know Casey had visited anti death penalty websites a few weeks before the murder? there were pics of signs like " these is life after you" and other weird pics its not just one piece of evidence its the totality of all the evidence oh yeah she was stealing and ther was that big fight Lee told Padilla about it the first day the cops were there. its all put together to equal nothing but murder.
had this been a even semi normal family and then an accident happened I could buy the accident theory but not after looking at all of the evidence. there is just way 2 much to say it was anything but murder
Another thought, Casey may have tossed Caylee in the pool w/o a lif jacket and let nature take its course or she may have held her head underwaterThere were signs in the yard of a decomposed body. Those dogs are usually pretty good. The cops even gave her chance after chance to admit some accident happened. Had she admitted this nothing would have ahppened to her. They even said it is the leading cause of toddler death in Florida.
Like I said before if you go back months before and disect her life prior to and leading up to the crime you can see a pattern of dysfunction and Cindy was about to take custody of Caylee she had been to a shrink who told her to kick Casey out and take Caylee. if you listen to one of those 911 cals I think the 1st one you can almopst hear Cindy asy something to that effect. " I already gave you 31 days now we are going to take....." and you cant hear the rest but Casey's goose was cooked.
Look at the Susan Smith case. i saw videos of her taking good care of her kids and she no doubt loved them but then she met that man at her job that didnt want kids and her life spirled out of control leading to those 2 boys being killed by her. had she been half as savy as Casey she too might have got away with murder. Susan Smith IMO is far better of a soul than Casey she admitted what she did and is paying the price as we speak.
I sympathize with your position, Charlee. But negligent homicide would have been much easier to prove.
If Cindy wanted custody, why didn't Casey just give the child up?
O maybe I dunno, maybe that is why the jury just blew off the entire case but they are not suppose to do that, there were other charges they just wanted to go home and didnt take the job seriously enough. i heard the young ones overwhelmed the old ones who wanted to convict. they gave up. Wish i had been there you know what I would have said LOL
Casey give up and give in to Cindy? No way in hell. that was one of the issues between. Ill say what Cindy's mother told the cops " I guess Casey hated Cindy more than she loved Caylee" that should anwer that question
On your first point, no one can vote for murder 1 if they don't feel there was premeditation.
Your second point about hating Cindy more than loving Caylee may have merit but it that cannot be a normal reaction. It is just weird.
they didnt even call her, Shirley pleasesa that is. She is the maternal grandmother who told Cindy at the nursing home visit that Casey had stolen from them again. This was the catalyst that set the whells in motion that day. Cindy filmed Caylee and it was the last day of her life. Sometime between that evening when the fight broke out and the next day Caylee was dead. Cindy lied on the stand saying they were all together and watched the video and had a great time like no fight no confrontation about the stoledn check, nothing. That does not jive with what Shirley Pleasea said to cops. Why they didnt approach this case from that angle will always baffle me. I know Cindy said she would not cooperate with cops/state IF they did call her, so they complied like idiots IMO this was the gist of the case. Turns out Cindy lied anyway and I knew she would. If i had been on that team I would have demanded Pleasea testify. I think they call that Epic Fail
So you think Cindy was involved in a coverup? That could explain the juror acquittal vote and at the least adds to the confusion of determining guilt.
she lied on the stand about being at work. she didnt get the opportunity to lie about the check theft or the fight cause the state didnt ask her they completely avoided the fight cause they figgered she would lie so they didnt bother. I dsagreed with that from the get go should have called granny and showed the stiolen check, the fight, the other fights, the lies casey told about the job then asked the boyfriend Tony how he didnt want a kid and if he did he wanted a boy etc etc its Susan Smith all over again instead they focused on the cholorform which I think she did have and used I saw burn marks on Caylee's face several pics are floating around with burn marks on her face. may be rag left in the trunk was enought overwhelm her that or the tape prolly helpt too
Thanks for your posts, Charlee. I always look at it this way, there is a higher power, and justice takes it's course. But I understand your feelings. Killing an innocent child is just one of the worst crimes there can be.
thank you for doing the blog. i thought about it but I hate to type and after reading and typing I start seeig double LOL
Ive moved on but ill tell you for the 1st time in my life I cried like a baby in the bathroom for 30 minutes at the verdict. I never in my life would have dreamed any case would have effected me like this one did. many other people feel the same too and there hasnt been another case and IMO never will be even though I have read some crimes to children that were worse than this one.
thanks again
You are welcome Charlee. It was a disturbing case. There was much circumstantial evidence. I am glad you got to talk about it here.
lightning john 10 months ago
Hi Bgamall, these people live not far from me. The evidence seemed so overwhelming against her. After the verdict, a couple of my nieghbors came outside to scream WTF! Oh well, only in Florida. Lj