Sarah Palin and the Arizona Shooting
74So Did Sarah Palin's Free Speech Contribute to This Shooting?
Update: Sarah Palin knows that no one will ever know what impact the campaign speech had on the deranged Arizona killer. But most people who had a conscience would keep silent on the two days of the funeral and services and would feel remorse for having used the language.
I don't think Palin has much of a conscience. After all, the gunman bought the gun after the election, on November 30 as reported. For her to come out swinging knowing the election rhetoric could have impacted the young man was just plain dumb and irresponsible. Neil Cavuto, not exactly a flaming liberal, stated that the nation's "discourse" helped create this nut. Shame on you Sarah Palin as you were in the forefront of this irresponsible discourse!
Having said that, it would be wrong for people to go after Sarah Palin in any way other than through verbal and civilized criticism. This website is for discussion, and a rational and calm assessment. No one should advocate a response that is inappropriate towards Sarah Palin. But remember, she can't really claim to be a victim if she is so quick to use words that are over the top in a political campaign. Hopefully we can learn something from political discussion and free speech and Arizona politics. I hope you do read the discussion that follows.
By the way, this Limbaugh Billboard that was prominent in Tucson came to my attention. Just more of the same, and the killer likely saw this Rush. Rush has come out saying he didn't know about the billboard, as it was put up by the radio station that ran Limbaugh's program. So, while that is irresponsible of Rush, it could be true. Still, it shows the essence of the campaign, Republicans in the state were falling over themselves to see which one was more warlike. I view the odds of WW3 as being higher with Republicans in office, unless they threw the Neocons out who are not true conservatives, but are quick to endless war. Historical conservatives were slow to war. This billboard rhetoric does heighten the tension for someone who is unstable. And so could the campaign rhetoric in general, including Palin's charts and words. We just don't know one way or another.
Gabrielle Giffords, Democratic congresswoman and wife of an astronaut, was tragically gunned down in Arizona on January 8, 2011. She is still in critical condition. The gunman was a white young man who was rejected for military duty. He was only 21. Based on this event I would like to discuss the issue of free speech. It appears that Sarah Palin's free speech could have influenced the killer. We do not know for sure about the actual impact, but certainly the idea of Palin's targeting of politicians in a figurative way is what is at issue here.There is absolutely no proof that the shooter or accomplice have any connection to Sarah Palin and connecting Palin to these people is not the intent of this discussion.
The issue that many have, and most often you hear it from conservative people, is regarding the concept of free speech and speech that incites and where do you draw the line. Often you hear conservatives speaking about video games and where to draw the line regarding free speech. Remember when they campaign about family values? They have a point, but certainly free speech must be maintained at all costs. And no one says the video games are placed in such a highly charged arena as are political expressions!
It is my view that Sarah Palin broke no laws, but may have created unintended consequences by her speech. So, I will absolutely defend the legal right of Sarah Palin to use her map with the targets of Democrats on them but question if she may have unknowingly contributed to inciting the killer of a judge and a 9 year old child who died in the mass attack. We do not know if this was the case. But others have expressed concern as we see in one of the videos below. And this constant referral to targeting politicians does not come across as solid family values to me no matter how metaphorical it is.
It is my view that Sarah Palin wants to project a persona, one of being a frontier lady, a maverick, a shooter. The fact that she uses guns a lot for sport, and puts targets on the politicians she wants defeated is troubling. It is the cumulative affect of Palin's behavior that makes people concerned. I do not advocate the banning of guns or anything of the sort in my criticism of Palin's tactics. My father ran a sporting goods store when I was a child and I hunted and fished. But just to speak of hunting by itself never would have been an issue. Add to this that she has never come across a war she didn't like and you can see that she is a divider. Dividers often bring hatred and can unleash really bad behavior on the part of those who are unstable.
A self examination is in order. I have the websites: Palin-sucks.com, Palinsuresucks.com, and Palinreallysucks.com. I use these expressions to bring attention to the websites, but if you read the websites you will see that while I am no fan of Sarah Palin, I explain why I am not a fan in an academic manner. But in no way are these hateful websites.
I explain why she has religious doctrines that do not appear to mirror the behavior or the teachings of Christ. I explain that separation of church and state are important, that dominionism, which Palin has never repudiated, is a dangerous, and warlike doctrine. I explain that Palin is on the wrong side of biblical interpretation let alone constitutional interpretation when it comes to church and state.
My intent is not to incite hatred toward Sarah Palin, because hatred should not be the American way. Hate and division are not what we are striving for as a nation. I would hope that Sarah Palin would curb her metaphorical speech regarding reloading, targeting, etc that she continually uses. Palin took the chart down. Obviously she is self conscious about people seeing it or she would not have taken it down. Sarah Palin says she hates war, but until she repudiates Dominionism, a false religious doctrine of physical conquest, I won't believe her.
I posted this at the Yahoo comment board and I think it is appropriate as the parents are devastated about their loss:
The election had a level of language that even Republicans rarely used. Angle talking about second amendment solutions, Palin showing the congressmen who retired in red like fire through the crosshairs.
These parents have a right to be devastated, as all parents would be. I think that in Arizona with the language floating around I would not have allowed my kid to go.
Angle of Nevada, a border state to Arizona, and Palin, though not directly to blame for this, should apologize for their rhetoric. Remember, the gun was bought soon after the election.
Don't forget, the bulls eye targets, along with the talk of "solutions" on the first chart below, mirrors the Sharon Angle comment of "second amendment solutions" in nearby Nevada. This was obviously a massively irresponsible talking point! That almost crosses the line from metaphor to inciteful speech!
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Immigration and Health Care Could Be the Issues in the Shootings
It appears that immigration could be an issue with regard to this tragedy. There was some talk show talk and anger regarding the judge who was killed. John Roll was a central figure, but we do not know if the gunman knew he would be there. John Roll allowed a case that permitted illegal aliens to sue a rancher. With regard to how many Arizonans feel, this was a tinderbox of anger with regard to this issue of giving illegal aliens rights. But we don't even know if the gunman knew he was there at this point.
The apparent target was Giffords. She had opposed the Arizona immigration law, which is a very difficult thing to do in Arizona. Many Arizonans hate the abdication of sovereign rights by the US government. The health care issue was another one that created a lot of anger in Arizona and the congresswoman supported that issue. People in Arizona feared Death Panels, yet their own governor has stopped funding for transplants that has already resulted in two deaths. So these issues are all red hot in Arizona right now.
Immigration is a contentious issue. If the US government would just come in and secure the Arizona border, and control any drug issues related to the border, that would go a long way in reducing the tension. My personal view is that the government has a sovereign duty to guard the borders of our country.Big business and a loose North American union have become more important than border security and I don't think that is right.
On the other hand, I am sympathetic to the Hispanics of a state who would have to live under a law that makes them have to identify themselves without having committed a crime. I believe that if the US government would do its job, states like Arizona would not think they have to pass really bad law which states should not have on their books.
Sarah Palin Dangerous Dominionist
Sarah Palin Must Step Up to Wall Street: Is Palin a Maverick or a Pretender?
I believe Sarah Palin is not a maverick. I believe she is a pretender. She is a person who claims to be an independent frontier person, but in fact is a pawn of the empire building ways of neocons and others. While there has been a break between neocon Karl Rove and Palin, the views they have regarding endless war are similar indeed.
Wall Street has done very bad things to mainstreet. I have stated so many times.
I hope that people would see that both parties have sold out to Wall Street. The clawbacks of ill gotten gains and prosecutions of Wall Street fraud in selling AAA loans that were not AAA have not taken place. The government has become a lackey of the wealthy banksters. This would not likely change under Sarah Palin. I don't see her smacking the banking class in her speeches. I don't see her trying to help mainstreet in any way.
Think about it, do we want another bubble attack where mainstreet gets easy money loans only to default and go broke as the smart money makes money and moves on? Why doesn't Sarah address the injustice of notes not being transfered properly when mortgages are sold, and why doesn't she address the evils of the foreclosure affidavit gone bad?
Links to What Is Happening in Arizona
- How Jared Loughner Fell Through The Mental Health Cracks
TUCSON, Ariz. Jared Loughner had never been in major trouble with the law or overtly violent, but his behavior at his community college was so disturbing that campus police gave him and his parents an ultimatum: Get a mental health evaluation or do - AlaskaDispatch.com: Palin\'s Response to the Tucson Tragedy Is \'All About Sarah\'
The rap on Sarah Palin as governor in Alaska was always that in Sarah's world, everything was about Sarah. When the then-governor and Republican vice-presidential candidate fumbled her way through an interview with CBS's Katie Couric, seemingly unabl - Sarah Palin Crosshairs Reload Facebook
Just now from Sarah Palin's Facebook page: - Condemning the barbaric assassination :: Weekly Blitz
This is truly the worst piece of shocking news during the New Year. Arizona Rep. Gabby Giffords, a Democrat, was assassinated while meeting with constituents in her district in the area around Tucson. The assassinator also wounded as many as a dozen
The New Financial Order and Attacks on Mainstreet. There Is a Battle Needed but a Peaceful One!
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I get railed on now and then as I post at Seeking Alpha that off balance sheet banking allowed at Basel 2 in 1998 resulted in the ponzi housing bubble. One fellow who posts comments, Pier 0188, said while... - Foreclosuregate: Sue Judges Who Allow Fake Foreclosures
In the light of Foreclosuregate, not so named by CNBC and the bankster crowd, there are many bad judges. In fact, the definition of a bad judge is one who fails to protect the unrepresented. Many people are... - Top Ten Ways Wall Street Bankers Waged Class Warfare Against Main Street
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The senate of the United States cast their ballots 60-35 to refuse to allow states to cap the amount of interest charged on credit cards. If you didn't think you had the right to walk away from all your credit... - The Great Tea Party Secret Love Affair With Bankers
I hope Tea Party Republicans and other readers would take a look at all the sections of this hub. I am mainly trying to point out here that this is a complex set of economic problems that exist in the United... - John Stossel You Are a Patsy for Credit Scams
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Giffords Talks Palin Crosshairs
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You will never know if Sarah Palin had nothing to do with setting the kid off. You can't know that.
Also, the Republican governor cut funding for medicaid, resulting in a defacto death panel as transplant victims died, since your website is so stupid in not reporting that.
You ARE being ridiculous. You keep putting up this circular argument that Angle and Palin had nothing do with the shootings, but wait, they should still feel bad about having "an effect" on the shooter. They're either culpable or they're not, and NOT being culpable means they don't owe anyone an apology or any bad feelings about things they said.
Thanks. I am encouraged by your comments!
Once somebody has this kind of intent it's hard for them to turn back. It's the rage that goes through ones mind that in the end will lead to nothing but disaster, for everybody even the killer.
Thanks for a good hub. I'm looking forward to reading more.
Lol Winston, well said. Target practice should be limited to the target range. The sooner Palin learns this the better off she will be.
Again, if she repudiates dominionism, I would listen to her once a week. As it is there is nothing else she can say to overcome that massive flaw.
(you will have your specifics.)
braudboy,
They are not MY specifics - these are your claim. So far, you indicate that this vast conspiracy of the LEFT seems to lie in the hands of Bill Maher tricking an unsuspecting reported into interviewing him on air and the cast of The View doing whatever it is they were doing that was pinko.
No doubt these are the ringleaders. It chills me to think about small children possibly exposed to the godless liberals.
Do you think Oprah and Jerry Springer are in on it, too? Just the other day, I was watching Sesame Street and they had an immigrant on - most likely of the illegal type - when will this liberal pinko madness end?
I'm with you. We should target these liberal media types, put a bullseye on their careers, shoot holes in their lame attempts to steal democracy, and reload in our efforts to keep America free and strong.
God bless us, everyone!
Palin made the map Braudboy. She is stuck with it for the rest of her life.
She didn't have to do it. She was popular, and didn't need it. She didn't need to say reload, and speak of second amendment solutions as Sharon Angle and Palin both did. She didn't need to do it but she did it.
aka winston- You need specifics on the medias debacle concerning this insane shooter and how they have tried to link it to Sarah Palin. Well, if you have the ability to rerun any of the news coverage, I would see watch all of the media's coverage and you will have your specifics. I just watched "The View" this morning and they were still talking about Sarah Palin and her map. I saw an interview with Bill Maher who not only condemned Palin, but he went on to say the shooter's chalkboard, (if he had one) would look very similar to Glen Becks ideas. There are countless examples. Crank up your TV and re-watch them if you have not already seen it. Now, the irresponsible behavior is this: There is no real evidence that this shooter listened to or followed conservative leaders such as Palin. The media went out of its way to come to these conclusions on their own. It is not journalism. It is an agenda and it is shameful. Most clear-thinking individuals see it as so.
Maybe he thinks that the republication of these charts is lack of integrity. But really, this is information, and I report, others decide. Fair and balanced.
@braudboy,
Could you be more specific. Who exactly represents "the liberal media"? What exactly is the "left's irresponsible behavior"? Could you cite examples of "the media's lack of integrity"?
Thanks.
You might have made a plea for death threats to stop.....but what you dont see, is that it is the left's irresponsible behavior and the media's lack of integrity, that has resulted in Palin being threatened. Now, that is a fact......not some trumped up B.S. such as trying to implicate Palin to this shooter. You should all be ashamed.
Braudboy, it is lame because he hadn't seen him for 2 years. The shooter became a college student and was likely subjected to a lot of information that he didn't have in high school.
No one should make death threats to anyone and I made a plea for this to stop at the beginning of this article.
Lame stuff??? It is an actual friend that KNEW him!!!!! Yet, you would rather go with what fits the liberal medias portrayal of events. It is typical of the left to dream up their own scenarios, and they dont let facts get in their way. It is no less probable that this shooter heard Obama say bring a gun to a knife fight, but you ignore this and go after the real threat to liberals....the dreaded Sarah Palin. Meanwhile, death threats are going on against Palin and the hate just keeps pouring out on the left....where the real fanatics reside.
I am not ridiculous. It is likely that the outcome of the election had a profound effect on the shooter. However, it is possible that the campaigne rhetoric had an effect as well.
You are wrong about his friend. That guy knew him in high school, not in college. Why do you bring up such lame stuff?
You are ridiculous. He bought the gun after the election, so that makes it possible it had an effect on him. All of the evidence (or lack of evidence) shows he was not interested in the news or political scene as witnessed to by his friend. There are no reasons for what the insane do, but it doesnt prevent liberals from trying to dream up motives, especially when it aligns with their own hatreds and biases.
He was a college student so I doubt he didn't know about her. But with the references to shooting and second amendment solutions being so front and center in the campaign, coupled with the knowledge that he bought the gun after the election, makes it possible that election talk set him off.
Apparently the tension in the election debates also could have been fueled by excessive target speech, as one debate between Kelly and Giffords was likened to a mob scene.
This lunatic probably doesnt even know who Sarah Palin is. He was more likely to have heard Obama say make sure to bring a gun to a knife fight than he was to see Palin's little map. I hadnt seen the map until the left dug it up to spout their hatred for Palin. The whole episode just shows how ridiculous the left is in our country and how desperate they are to take down those who oppose their views. The left is very willing to sling mud and spread lies if it accomplishes their goals.
Hi Melbel, I just report and you decide! I am what Faux News says they are, but aren't. :) On the one hand, I don't assign blame to free speech. On the other hand, if I had said those things and a guy bought a gun soon after and attempted to kill someone I had a target on, even if it was metaphorical, I would have been petrified. Not good ole Sarah, although she has been a little quiet since the "blood libel" didn't go over so well.
This is an amazing piece. I could not have said it better. It's awesome to have someone here on HubPages who not only feels the way I do, but is not afraid to express this in their hubs! Keep up the good work! Rated up this hub, marked it as "useful" and I will keep an eye on your stuff from now on!
Yes Faux News is busy discrediting the sheriff.
Vrajavala, I am not saying ban speech, just be careful what you say in a heated campaign. Kill two birds with one stone has no such emotional reaction as metaphors used in a heated campaign. I could see congress getting a ban on people putting targets on them, but that is up to congress, and that is a limited fix, which now protects the president.
I have already told you if you would read it, that dominionism and the refusal of Palin to reject the doctrine is why I view her as dangerous.
(Unfortunately, the liberal left uses every possible excuse to defame her)
Stupdity requires no extraneous defamation.
I'm afraid we'll have to ban the English language and the use of metaphors, like "kill two birds with one stone", "When the Moon hits your eye like a big pizza pie", I could go on and on.
Unfortunately, the liberal left uses every possible excuse to defame herl. Alan Dershowitz seems to think her claiming it's "blood libel" is not anti-semitic.
let's look at the real problem: Sheriff Dupnik, who was negligent in his duties, and the parents.
You have to love the sheriff around Tuscon who called Arizona "the Mecca of bigotry".
Yes the bailout was in the trillions. If you look at the amount of money that savers have lost because the Fed has been forced to lower interest rates, with the banks being able to go to the discount window and borrow at 1/2 percent and buy these treasuries at 3.5 percent interest it has been in the trillions. This is a massive robbery of savers in America and the banks have the ability to buy these low yielding treasuries WHOLESALE.
You have no clue Braudboy. One of the biggest transfers of wealth to the top 2 percent in the history of the world took place through the ponzi housing bubble and the crash. This was an attack on mainstreet of historic proportions.
And don't forget, the Fed keeps the rates low because the government was not getting revenue and had to spend more. This is a giant rip off of America by the wealthiest. http://sociology.ucsc.edu/whorulesamerica/power/we
If you look at the second chart you will see that the concentration of wealth in the top 1 percent was astronomical in the dot com bubble, then they lost down to 38 percent in 2001. But the housing bubble has increase this to 42 percent. This is pure planned theft.
Look at the total wealth of the bottom 80%. This is terrible, and it comes about by the power of big business to set prices and manipulate markets.
BGAMALL- The bailout was not in the trillions, Where do you get information? And when you question about these billions....do you realize who authorized this???? It was government....not bankers. There is indeed a corrupt system, but it begins with politicians. The economic meltdown came down to bad mortgages encouraged and backed by our liberal friends in Washington. There is some blame on Wallstreet, but most blame falls on bad policy decisions, forcing banks to lend to minorities, low-income, and bad-credit risk, all in the name of so-called compassion and vote-buying. Politicians need to keep their nose out of the markets, because every time they try to manipulate the system, tax-payers get screwed. Wall Street knows how to make money. Leave them alone and certainly, dont bail them out if they fail. It is called risk for a reason.
I enjoyed reading this hub to get a refreshing perspective rather than reading garbage on other sites assigning blame and trash talking. I'm center-right in my political views, but I have to agree with bgmall here: there's PLENTY of blame to go around for what happened in Tucson. People love to single out a particular politician or party when a long-festering problem in our Country comes to a head; be it "political" (this Arizona shooting - notice my quotation here), economic (the mortgage meltdown) or environmental (remember the BP disaster- anyone??). And people love to hate the system we have. Well, folks - WE are the system. Maybe we can start looking inward towards ourselves for a solution.
Great hub.
You are brainwashed by Faux News Braudboy. The banksters were given trillions of dollars. If you consider that the fed printed money and then gave the money to banksters who pushed up the price of oil to 144 dollars per barrel, how much do you think was made? How much do you think they made when they made fees and interest on ponzi loans, then got bailouts for the costs of those loans, and then got the property back? Plus they made the profit on the difference between the discount window and the cost of treasuries. That money should go to taxpayers but instead it goes to the banks and paid by taxpayers. This is the biggest scam in history, until the next bubble they plan to blow. You watch and see who gets hurt. Mainstreet gets hurt.
You consider bankers and wall street guys criminals, but I tell you much more was stolen and wasted and corrupted by politicians than will ever be taken from you by the private sector. ....and the electorate is pretty stupid as evidenced by our current president. I am more hoping for a more informed and intellectual electorate to show up next time.
No it depends on when you invested and when you retired. If you had to retire during the crash you would have been hurt. You get back a good deal. And here is the deal about social security, since the baby boomers have boycotted stocks, the financial firms are desperate for the fees that would be generated by social security. I don't want them handling social security. I want stocks boycotted until the criminals are behind bars, which will never be. The system works and a majority don't want it too change.
And as far as Palin's electability, it depends on how stupid the electorate is. But I don't think they are that stupid, although time will tell.
You cant be serious. Social security is a joke. That money that I have paid in for the past 30 years, and will pay in for the next 15 or 20 years,(God willing), I will never see the full return on this money that I would have gotten had I been able to keep and invest this money. I am in it because I am forced to be in it.
I am not sure if Palin is electable, but based on the focus of relentless attacks by the media and the left in this country, I would say she has a chance. As she gets unfairly demonized by a liberal press and the left-wing media personalities, it energizes the heartland and the silent majority of our country to stand up to the non-sense.
I agree Prof. And to make things worse, there are few real conservatives, like Paul or Buchanan. The rest are war like Neocons who are very dangerous.
The whole Palin phenomenon has been sort of a boon to the conservative base, though I'm conservative and don't like her, but she's unelectable. Palin has ruined any chance at running for a major political office or being being appointed to a federal post by her lack of political acumen. Well, perhaps she could win a congressional seat in an Alaskan district, but outside of that-no way.
Republicans/conservatives who see her as viable for a presidential bid are kidding themselves bagamall.
Braudboy, strictly speaking, Social Security, which I think is great, is really socialism. You generally get back more than you pay in. If you like Social Security, and it appears that you do, you like some forms of socialism. That was my point.
Why should I sen you my social security??? I mean I do see why you would want it as most socialists enjoy spending other people's money. However, I paid into that program against my will my whole adult life, and I am looking forward to getting a littl of it back.
I find England to be a very charming place. It isn't perfect, but I felt comfortable in one of the largest cities in the world, London. I have no problem with a little socialism. Tell you what, send me your social security when you retire and I will spend it for you.
Bgamall- You only prove my point more in revealing he is an Englishman. The English have long ago fallen from greatness as a nation and a people, giving in to liberalism and socialism, like much of Europe. They have become insignificant on the world stage in the process. But, anyway, I understand your fear of Sarah Palin. She is everything that liberals are scared of. She is intelligent, courageous, and has principles of conservatism, and is popular. The more the press tries to ruin her, the more popular she becomes. People are tired of the lies, manipulation, and the attacks by media. They are only making her stronger.
You show your ignorance again Braudboy, as Hello is an Englishman. I suggest that society has been around a lot longer and there is a civilized tone to it. He thinks Palin is a Wanker. And so do I.
And as far as liberal politics is concerned, just what is that? The Republicans want the banks to leverage up again. That is fiscally irresponsible. But I guess that Palin's refusal to speak out about that makes her a liberal? So you see, politics is turned on its head and it isn't as simple as you make it seem. But then again, sophistication and nuance are not Sarah Palin's middle name so I can't expect more from her followers. http://hubpages.com/hub/Top-Ten-Ways-Wall-Street-B
You see bgamall- You have incited the loony left comments of "Hello Hello". You should be ashamed of yourself. The real problem is that the Left in this country are afraid of people like Sarah Palin because she speaks the truth and has the courage to speak out against the madness of liberal politics.
Wow, I think you had one ot two comments. I think Sarah Palin is gun mad and becoming more and more a liability. Teh world is aggrecive enough and doesn't somebody to put more fire. I don't thing after this she shouldn't be allowed in politics. Who in its right mind would do a thing like that map. I hope people won't elect her again.
Good, glad you accept my comments that we don't know for sure if her comments were influential on the shooter. We are getting somewhere. As to the usual liberal tirades, I don't do that. I just have pointed out that Sarah Palin has not repudiated sacralist religious views that I believe are wrong. How is that liberal?
bgamall- I have read too well. I know you preface all of your comments with We shouldnt blame Palin, and we dont know for sure if her comments were influential....and then you dive into the usual liberal tirades of trying to speculate that those who dissent against the left-wing agenda are stirring up hatred and causing the senseless killings. It is ridiculous. You also fail to mention the liberals who use similar language that can be construed the same way. You are wasting time.
I am not sure you have read or thought about a single thing I have posted here.
The left is so desparate to shut up the opposition to their insanity, they will stoop as low as they can to make it happen. This shooter, if anything, was a leftist, but more importantly, was just crazy. The political discussions will continue. I know the left wants to silence the opposition because it exposes them a liars and frauds, but their lame attempts will fail again.
Lol, Slocher. I would say that China is not so keen on this world order, because the Chinese people will not be massive consumers. They have no social safety net. We are the consumers of last resort. So, if we can shop at Walmart, fine, but don't charge it on the credit card.
So shopping at Walmart is what we should be doing.
Now, with regard to George Soros, he is calling for a new financial order, not a one world political order: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TOjckJWqb0A
Now, I have written about this new financial order. It has abused mainstreet citizens and should be peacefully resisted simply by citizens refusing to use the products and bad loans of this financial order, whether they be payday loans, toxic mortgage loans or other no money down high interest loans. The New Financial Order is predatory, and people of both parties, from Soros to Kissenger to H W Bush to the Clintons support it.
But citizens can peacefully resist it by their personal frugality.
I came across this regarding another guy who opened fire on the California Highway Patrol. His mother cited Glenn Beck's rhetoric. Byron Williams said Beck and other right wing figures motivated him to start a revolution. http://www.democracynow.org/seo/2010/10/12/progres
Slochur, as I have said many times before, the gun was purchased soon after the election. Palin knows that. That is why she should be more humble instead of crying victim when her persona is one of a bully. If she wants to act like a man then she shouldn't cry victim during the grieving process. And she should have used the term "blood sport" to make her point instead of "blood Libel" which has a specific meaning in history. She is selfish and ignorant.
Merritt, if Limbaugh and Palin are bullies in the arena, they can't cry victim when they do stupid stuff.
Kenny I can't quite understand all your points there. I don't think Merritt is a white supremacist. No one has to point figures and the shooter is to blame for his actions. I report, Merritt, and you decide. Fair and balanced.
Slocher makes the best point, that I think we (with common sense) realize. The only focus the liberals have is "demean" Palin, "demean" Limbaugh...just demean anyone for political gain. Even the POTUS has said to simply QUIT pointing fingers. The logic the liberals have is there is blame for everything someone does, except for the PERSONAL blame of the individual committng the violent act.
cMerrits statements lose merrit when he believes that statements he has written,How did he begin hating radio and Tv programmes before watching them?
Certainly the programmes he watched and listened to,worked on him so much that he ended up hating them and also hated the people who had been made subject.
The defining issue here is the hate for Obama and those who serve him,so people like you or Sarah that have this white supremacy thoery implanted in your heads,will hate anything to do with Obama....its very clear but remember that all authority comes from God
bgamall, You don't get it. Maybe the Beatles are to blame for everything Charles Manson did. You hate (Sarah Palin) therefore you are.
You still don't get it. It has nothing to do with right or left. It has to do with language that affects impressionable 21 year olds. And don't think it doesn't. Did it put him over the line? We won't know in this life will we?
Anyone but Sarah Palin would likely feel bad about the language used, knowing it could have really done damage. But Sarah is special. She has little or no conscience. Even today she is out there using a term, blood libel, that has nothing to do with this situation, has to do with religious persecution in history, has the reference to blood which is inappropriate, and is spoken during a time of grieving when she should keep her mouth shut.
I know nothing would make you happier for this to be tied with anything on the right, but please, give it up. The kid is nothing more than a wacko, who killed. period.
Let's focus on positives for those who survived this.
Merritt, this kid didn't see his friend for TWO YEARS. He became a college student, a troubled soul with likely a lot of overload from media. He bought the gun right after the election so you are just blowing hot air Merritt.
bgamall, a close friend of his has already made a statement...'HE DID NOT WATCH TV. HE DISLIKED THE NEWS. HE DIDN'T LISTEN TO POLITICAL RADIO'....the man was CRAZY...he had a shrine in his backyard....he was a heavy pot smoker.....he was DERANGED....
Should Obama be worried he told democrast "if they (republicans) bring a knife to the fight, YOU (democrats) bring a gun"...he told his people to "get in the face of those who disagree with you"....
c'mon....quit the rhetoric....with all due respect..YOU need to come to terms with the FACTS....PLEASE!
Merrit, people at that age are very impressionable. The young man could have been pushed over the top by the rhetoric. After all, he bought the gun right after the election. I imagine that you are having trouble coming to terms with that fact.
I find it appalling that there are people out there who continue to TRY to find blame on people they don't like, with not ONE ounce of evidence to support thier claims...NOT ONE OUNCE!!....Typical liberal response is to blame society for the actions of someone who clearly is nothing more or nothing less and nutjob!
rebeka, it WAS the shoot alone, who did this.....there IS no bigger cause or effect....he is NUTS!
back to your regular scheduled programming...
Yes, and I did not mean her being the cause specifically. But all of life responds to cause and effect. In this case, until more facts are known, it is what it appears to be. Obviously, he was a troubled young man who wanted to kill Giffords for reasons unknown at this time. Hopefully she will recover, although her life will never be the same.
In the mean time, healing and comfort are needed to those affected and for our country. We all are affected by these kind of terrible mass shootings that should never happen.
I agree Rebekah. While we can't prove cause and effect, we cannot disprove it either, and Palin should just admit that and move on. But instead it is all about Sarah, how Sarah is the victim. She is a dark heart.
Anyone who speaks to incite and illicit mobs of angry people to 'reload' has to seriously consider the ramifications of how the public responds and reacts to this kind of language. I find it appalling that Palin supporters do not find the glaring hypocrisy of her words.
She states that she doesn't believe in violence and retreats back to the days of the Civil War to support her desperate attempts to deny any responsibility as a public figure for her tone and dialogue.
It's strange to me that everyone is so quick to say, it was the shooter alone who is responsible. Somehow we're missing the big picture here of cause and effect.
Sarah Palin is an elitist and a divider. She preys on the weakness of the Tea Party at the start, that the borrowers, not the lenders, were mainly responsible for the financial crash. Many people who identify with the Tea Party don't believe this but they aren't the leaders. The leaders, like Palin, are demogogues.
Im begining to dout if there is any true America..........If at this particular time,Palin still thinks that her America is still the only right America and the rest are hyenas,God forbid. She was feeling so sadened with a smile and joy all over her face.............
But one thing for sure God may seem so far away,but he also too near to act when necessary.
True, and can you imagine not one prosecution for selling a fraudulent bond and there were thousands of them?
But the war arm of the banksters are the Neocons, the far worse of the two evils.
I hope that people would see that both parties have sold out to Wall Street. The clawbacks of ill gotten gains and prosecutions of Wall Street fraud in selling AAA loans that were not AAA have not taken place. The government has become a lackey of the wealthy banksters.
True! Left or Right, they are all puppets!
If you initiate a war for oil you are committing a war crime.
Read this as your boys, the oil men, had the Taliban as guests in 1997 in Texas as allies: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/world/west_asia/37021.s
The failure of the Taliban to accept Unocal's terms I believe gave motive for Cheney to facilitate 911. I know that will likely be over your head but think about it. That makes the war in Afghanistan a criminal war as well.
Obama is extending the war crime but wants to end it with a time table just like Iraq. It is wrong to extend it but it is better than nothing to end it. I wonder if the Cheney pipeline will be in place by the time it is ended, to the Caspian Sea investments of Halliburton where Cheney was CEO.
If you mean that Iraq and the whole Middle East region is about Oil and must be protected for the world economy, DUH! That has always been the case. If you mean Bush attacked Iraq to steal their oil......again, I ask you where is our oil. That did not happen. The middle east has always been about oil and every move we have made over the past 60 or more years has been with that in mind. Do you not realize this? You think we are the the only country waging war???? I would think that there are a few million people in Africa that would disagree. Probably a few people in the provinces around Russia that would disagree. Probably some people in the region around Palestine and Syria that would disagree. But, anyway, its your boy Obama who is perpetuating the war effort. I see him ramping up things in Afghanistan.
Braudboy, Mccain and Abazaid said it was all about oil. When are you going to come to your senses. You are in a party of violence. That cannot end unless the party kicks the Neocons out. Even Pat Buchanan fears the neocons. Wake up man.
Obama made a deal with Bush. Neocons rule.
The only country waging extensive war in the world is the USA! There is something very wrong with that picture isn't there. But you can't see it. Read my next hub. It is coming out shortly.
You are not a left winger???? Listen to yourself. Bush invaded Iraq for oil???? Did we get some oil out of that deal???? Now oil is why that region is important to the world....is that what you meant? Because you sounded like a left-wionger for a minute. NOw, I do agree that these wars need to end.... but, do you realize that Obama is ramping up the war in Afghanistan??? What the left in this country dont see is that America is in dangerous times and better stay very aware and prepared to defend itself and its allies from those who are definitely out to ruin us. It amazes me how the left can easily connect dots that arent even there in unraveling our global climate crisis but cant even see the REAL dangers that lurk about in the Middle East, and in China, and in Russia, and in North Korea.
Braudboy, I am not a left winger. Look, things have fallen apart since 2000 when Bush invaded Iraq for oil. Even McCain admitted it on the video here: http://hubpages.com/hub/Does-Anyone-Really-Want-to
The Neocons brought the doctrine of endless war, which, btw, is not the doctrine of Ron Paul and Pat Buchanan if you read that website. Your problem is that you can't see that the Neocons wanted a warrior nation and that is what they got.
How is it that you left-wingers always point to the right when trying tone down the arguement. There is plenty of hatred and violent undertones from democrats. Obama himself called the republicans his enemy and he talked about when they bring a knife to the fight he will bring a gun. There has been plenty of violence spewed toward Beck, and Rush, and former president Bush. The left even made a movie portraying his assasination. I guess it is Ok because it is being done by the loving left and we all know they mean no harm. The reality is that is human nature to speak in these terms. You do not limit speech in this country, and it is only the left that try to do so.
I didn't say to limit free speech. However, it may be necessary to stop with the target crosshairs as I think there is a law against doing that to the president of the United States. But other than that possibility, which would be applied to congress, and which may prove to be acceptable, I would not limit free speech.
We are going down a very slippery slope if we try to limit free speech just because it may incite someone. This was the act of a lunatic not a movement.
Well said Vaguesan, but when Palin, Beck and Limbaugh get rich on hate that is wrong. Don't get me wrong, I am for all manner of free speech. I just think that this sort of talk, of second amendment solutions, etc, has no place in politics.
Yes Breakfastpop, you are correct. However, read the comments, especially the second comment. The campaign was far more civil from his account than the last campaign. But that was not right either. But no one died tragically in that campaign. Palin signed up for criticism. She needs to man up like a mamma grizzly: http://www.intellectualconservative.com/2011/01/09
By the way, the Dems used a similar map with crosshairs on it 2 years ago. The only one responsible for this tragedy is the deranged young man who pulled the trigger. To suggest otherwise is irresponsible.
I'm not sure what the shooter was about. He seemed to be all over the place politically. I think this was more about mental disease.
That being said, palin and other right wingers should tone it down a bit. If they have real issues to stand on, they don't need to use violent undertones to gain support.
Kenny, your second comment was well said. Scott, no one is saying she is behind the shootings. But certainly speech like hers could incite the unstable and mentally ill.
its amazing how any of you cant see that palin is not behind the shootings. i tell you guys this, if it was your 9 yr daughter that got shot and died behind a lunatic that listens to people insight violence against the goverment you all would be screeming bloody murder, but its not so you are blind that people like palin insights violence in a undercover way, dont just look at her beauty and be blind to wat she dose. the little girls father even admits that sara and the tea party thinking and redrik had something to do with it. you guys need to look back on history on how the nazis paty came into power just like the tea party they were small and would talk hate in a undercover way then the next thing you know all hell was breaking loose in germany wake up america come togther, you have a lot of crazey nazism out there and palin is pushing it in a undercover way.
@CMerritt,I have a feeling that its those that have the least relationship to the berieved,are not in position not to see how dangerous this poisonous language can influence the actions of vulnarable people;especially, those with mental problems.These guys just need a slight argument to trigger up their emotional disturbances.
Had it been your daughter to lose her life at a tender age,would you still keep praising these guys promoting hatred in the disguise of free speech?
Shame on, your political fanatism has taken over your fair judgement;but you wouldnt suprise me if you critised Osama bin Laden for freedom of speech,as he encourages others to kill innocent human beings.......
I will give a lecture one day about "Misplaced anger",this is a psychiatirc state of the mind,that is responsible for creating fear in oneself and also spreading it.its a deficit that most people especialy the palins and the like have.One chooses to invite it by trying to use it against the other,it spreads like a wild fire and to an ordinary mind its so so bad
Actually, I have argued that true Republicans, the non Neocons, are a small minority in the party: http://hubpages.com/hub/Does-Anyone-Really-Want-to
Sarah Palin and all these ANGRY PEOPLE need to calm down andtry to be on the pro-America side for once. All they care about is themselves, to the point that they could insight a riot and feel good about it.
Mrs.Palin - If you have a conscience you need to review that statistics and facts surrounding America's financial crisis. George is at fault and you are acting as a true republican ....."I am not accountable, nor is anyone in the republican party,"
You didn't read the hub, as I said I am not interested in directing hate to Sarah Palin. However, she is cooked as a politician, being void of judgement. Like I said, she has a free speech right, but she never should have exercised it.
I believe the speech of the campaign may have impacted the deranged young man. So, littlebytes, you are making a rewrite of history with your link. Most people aren't blaming Palin but believe that her speech and the campaign speech could have effected the guy who bought the gun right after the campaign. We don't know that but it is possible.
Where's the hate coming from? http://amplify.com/u/blaew
Too bad, she is even more calculating than I gave her credit for.
Get real....she took the chart down because the media in this country has a big target painted on her picture in every newsroom in America. Of that, I am certain.
Sorry Baud, the gun was purchased just after the elections. So you cannot say without a shadow of doubt that her speech did not influence him. That is why she took the chart down off the sarahpac website.
You may be right, but you aren't certain, so to say that you are is disingenuous.
Sarah Palin had no more influence over this idiot than did the latest episode of Sponge Bob that he watched or the last joint he smoked. He was troubled and mentally challenged. Period!
Thanks for the encouragement Prof.
Good piece. Free speech must be protected-absolutely. It's also true that just because we CAN say something doesn't mean we should. There are potential repercussions to things we say, especially for public figures; IMO it's wise to think first, then speak.
We're on the same page regards Palin's participation in Dominionism, a dangerous perversion of scripture. I believe that this 'brand' of Christianity (so to speak) will bring great trouble upon us, and in fact already is bringing trouble to America.
Gary your comments are over my head. I don't quite understand if you are speaking of a conspiracy? I think it was just a deranged guy.
Merritt, the timing of the purchase of the gun makes the rhetoric of the campaign a possible influence upon the kid. Sorry, but you can't get around that. I am not saying it was an influence but it could have been and that is my point. I wouldn't want that on my conscience. I have always, even in my most controversial writings, advocated peace. The metaphors Palin used could have reached deranged people in the wrong way.
Again, why did Palin take the chart off her website?
The guy read communist and fascist writings. He got ideas from radical left and radical right.
This is Oklahoma City II. We all knew it was coming. And it's going to be used to stem the constitutionalist populism currently threatening the establishment in exactly the same way that OK City was used to stem the same constitutionalist populism back in the 90's. It's deja vu all over again. Laughner is even getting the same defense attorney who worked on the McVeigh case. I mean, come on.
we also know that this nutjob:
IS mentally unstable, long before anyone ever heard of Sarah Palin.
He is portrayed by friends as a far left liberal nut job who dabbled in the occult.
He had an altar with a skull sitting atop a pot filled with shriveled oranges.
"The Communist Manifesto" as one of his favorite books.
This has NOTHING what-so-ever to do with Sarah Palin....what we should be afraid of, is how the liberal media is chomping at the bit to make this a political issue rather than a plain and simple...NUTJOB!
and
what about the rhetoric of Obama insinuating that "if the repubicans bring knives to the fight, the dems should bring guns"? I think nothing of it, but THIS type of rhetoric is what is being displayed by the media.
No problem Merritt. I do not blame Sarah Palin, however, we don't really know if the rhetoric of the campaign led to this. We know that the kid bought the gun in late Novemember right after the 2010 election. We know that Sarah Palin took down the targets chart. But we also know she never apologized for the chart. I think her judgement is sorely lacking.
bgamall, I was not directly claiming you was blaming Palin. Just overall venting.
The political rhetoric has gotten out of hand no matter who says it Merritt. You can rationalize all you want, but it has to stop. And again, you did not read the hub since I stated at the beginning that I did not blame Palin for the shooting.
But keep in mind that Sarah Palin took the target chart down at the time of this writing. If she thought it was so great she would not have taken it down. http://www.sarahpac.com/
How about Mr. Obama's reference to the general election rumble with the Republicans: “If they bring a knife to the fight, we bring a gun.” or to "Get in their faces"...should HE be held accountable for his words?
Seriously to blame Palin or anyone is merely a cop out. We are all adults, and to find blame on anyone other than this nutjob who committed this heinous crime is ridicules.
Ok, go yell fire in a movie theater and then blame a guy who tramples someone in the crowd trying to escape. While Sarah Palin's speech does not rise to the level of yelling fire, and most people understand it to be metaphor, some people don't. It should not be speech used in the political arena even though I defend Sarah Palin's right to use her free speech. It doesn't rise to the level of speech like the fire example.
But this hub is not about assigning blame to anyone but the shooter. Did you bother to read it?
There is something seriously flawed in this country when anyone left or right wants to blame anyone but the shooter. It is time for this country to wake up while there is still time.
More Interesting Reading Tea Party People Need to Understand
- Wells Fargo Bank Leads Securitization Attack On Taxpayers
Wells Fargo bank wants the government to guarantee all mortgages and has threatened to make the 30 year mortgage obsolete if the bank doesn't get what it wants. I have been writing about this subject of... - The Death Panels Sarah Palin Doesnt Want You To Know About
Apparently Sarah Palin mismanaged the health care system in Alaska to the point where many elderly died by not even being made qualified to get medical care. And this by the hands of the woman who hates death panels.
bgamall Hub Author 12 months ago
You will never know if Sarah Palin had nothing to do with setting the kid off. You can't know that.
Also, the Republican governor cut funding for medicaid, resulting in a defacto death panel as transplant victims died, since your website is so stupid in not reporting that.